While I was in Missouri, a life-long friend and I were talking about our personal beliefs of life after death. Both of us believed that we continue to live after we die, and we agreed that we go to a happier place where Jesus is. Throughout our conversation, we used the term, "Going home," as a happier way of referring to death. I asked her, "Do you believe that we lived with God before we were born?" She wasn't sure what she believed about that... she said she had never even thought about it before. I told her that I believe we did live with God before we came to Earth... that is why we say we are "Going home" when we pass away. "Home" is where we started out, so our spirits yearn to return to that beautiful place where we used to live. Aside from being taught this principle all my life, I explained to her that one of the many reasons I believed this so strongly is because of our dear baby Jayden.
Before Jayden was ever even born, I knew he was in Heaven waiting to come to our home. I didn't know when he would be coming or even at what age we would find each other, but I felt a very strong drive to continue in the route of adoption. I believe Jayden was helping that drive... considering his strong personality, I believe he was not going to let me lose hope!! The adoption process was very heart-wrenching, but every second of it was worth it!!
Even as a teenager, I wrote in my journal that I felt like I would adopt. Nobody in my family had adopted, but I married a man with 4 adopted siblings and 1 biological sibling. He also had the same desire and drive in his heart. Did Jayden exist in Heaven before he came to our home? Absolutely!! He, as well as our biological children, were meant to come to our home to become a forever family... so we can continue as a family even after we die. God knew that Jayden's journey to us would be more difficult than the others', so I believe that is why I was given such a strong drive to know that he was waiting. Yes! We have the opportunity to live with God after we die, but we also had the opportunity to live with HIM before we came to Earth.
Tonight, I felt so grateful that although I was not there to see Jayden's birth, God allowed me to remember the day of his birth very vividly. One year ago today, I had been anxiously praying for answers on how to find our child. I wanted specific answers, but God gave me an overpowering peace that all would be well instead. I did not know how it would all unfold, but I finally accepted that peace. After so many years of waiting to come to Earth... Jayden had his turn. He was born!!! I'm grateful that God allowed me to feel overwhelming peace on the day of his birth... one year ago today. What a special miracle Jayden is to our family. HAPPY BIRTHDAY BABY JAY!!
We all chanted, "Jayden! Jayden! Jayden...
Eat it!! Eat it!! Eat it...
but he was not so sure about the fire and the big white fluffy lump on the table.
Strangely, our child who never hesitates to grab our food... required quite a bit of prodding for him to sample this chocolate mess in front of him.
Aha!! Jayden liked it!!! Can you tell? :-)
He's thinking, "Are you for real? This is my dinner?"
So... darn... good....
Every last drop!
"All done!" He's drunk with sugar...
...and HAPPY!!
SO VERY, VERY HAPPY!!! OH WHAT A MESS!
WE LOVE OUR BABY JAYDEN!!
One of the most interesting and unusual teachings of the LDS Church is that all human beings, as Gospel Principles puts it, are “literally the sons and daughters” of “heavenly parents.” If Heavenly Father is the literal father of our spirits—procreating us as spirit beings like an earthly father procreates his children—it would follow logically that we also have a “heavenly mother.” This Mother in heaven, of course, would be God’s wife. Belief in a heavenly mother, while not emphasized, is part of LDS doctrine, as the reference to “heavenly parents” in Gospel Principles illustrates. A statement by the First Presidency in 1909 entitled “The Origin of Man” affirmed this belief as official LDS doctrine: “All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.”
ReplyDeleteOddly, though, neither the Bible nor the other scriptures of the LDS Church ever mentions a heavenly mother. The term “heavenly parents” also never appears in any of the scriptures. This complete absence of any reference to a heavenly or divine Mother contrasts with the hundreds of references to God the Father in the Bible (especially the New Testament) as well as in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine & Covenants.
Not only do the LDS scriptures never mention a heavenly mother, but they also say some things that point to the conclusion that we do not have literal heavenly parents. For example, the Book of Mormon refers ten times to Adam and Eve as “our first parents” (1 Nephi 5:11; 2 Nephi 2:15; 9:9; Mosiah 16:3; Alma 12:21, 26; 42:2, 7; Helaman 6:26; Ether 8:25).
What makes the lack of any reference to a heavenly mother in Scripture so puzzling is that this would seem to be a very important thing to know. Imagine you were separated from your parents at birth and then when you were an adult you met some people who knew them. Would it not be odd if they talked repeatedly about your father but never even mentioned your mother?
Likewise, Joseph Fielding Smith acknowledges that the scriptures never mention a heavenly mother but argues that “common sense” tells us she must exist:
In answer to your question about a mother in heaven, let us use reason…. The fact that there is no reference to a mother in heaven either in the Bible, Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants, is not sufficient proof that no such thing as a mother did exist there. If we had a Father, which we did, for all of these records speak of him, then does not good common sense tell us that we must have had a mother there also?” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions [1960], 3:142).
This answer does not explain why the scriptures never even once mention a mother in heaven. The appeal to reason shows that the idea of a heavenly mother is simply assumed to be true on the assumption that God is our father in the literal sense that he procreated us as his literal offspring.
ReplyDeleteThe New Testament explicitly denies that all human beings are God’s children. Jesus taught that those who rejected him were not God’s children, and even said that the devil was their father (John 8:42-44). The apostle John explained that “the children of God” were those who were “born of God” through their faith in Christ and had turned away from a life of sin, while “the children of the devil” were those committed to a life of sin (John 1:12-13; 1 John 3:1-10; 5:1-2). The apostle Paul makes the same point when he says that we who believe in Christ and have the Spirit dwelling in us receive “adoption as sons” (Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26-4:7). Thus, people are not by nature God’s children. Rather, we are all God’s creatures, and we can become God’s sons and daughters through adoption and the spiritual rebirth that comes through faith in Christ.
According to the Bible, only one human being existed in heaven before his physical life on earth: Jesus Christ. John the Baptist contrasted himself with Jesus in this regard when he said, “He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all” (John 3:31). “He that cometh from above,” who “cometh from heaven,” is Jesus Christ; John the Baptist, like the rest of us, “is of the earth.” Unlike the rest of us, Jesus “had come forth from God and was going back to God” (John 13:3). Jesus told his disciples, “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father” (John 16:28). When he said this, he was clearly saying something about himself that was not true about everyone else.
There are a few verses in the Bible sometimes thought to imply that human beings existed as spirits in heaven. We will look briefly at three of these verses.
ReplyDeleteGod told Jeremiah, “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee” (Jeremiah 1:5). Since God knows everything and everyone from an eternal perspective, though, this verse does not prove that Jeremiah existed before his mother’s womb. That is because this verse does not say that Jeremiah knew God or had done anything before his earthly conception and birth. Rather, it tells us something about what God knew and did before our birth, not something about anything we knew or did. Other verses sometimes cited to prove our preexistence fall into this same category: they tell us about what God did for us before creation (for example, Ephesians 1:4).
Hebrews 12:9 refers to God as “the Father of the spirits,” but says nothing about when these “spirits” started to exist. Traditionally, Christians believe that a human being has both a spirit (on the “inside”) and a physical body (on the “outside”). By “the spirits” Hebrews may be referring to the departed spirits of the righteous who are with God now awaiting the resurrection (see Hebrews 12:23). We know that “Father of the spirits” does not mean that God literally procreated our spirits, because immediately before this verse it says, “It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons. But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons” (Hebrews 12:7-8). Just as John and Paul both taught, in Hebrews being God’s “sons” is a special privilege given to those who follow Jesus (see also Hebrews 2:10-14).
Finally, Paul told the Athenian philosophers:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device” (Acts 17:28-29).
In this speech in Athens, Paul quoted a line from a pagan poet (“For we are also his offspring”) to support his point that human beings were created to have an especially close relationship to God. It would be a mistake to take these words literally. In the same speech, Paul makes clear that God is a transcendent Being who “does not dwell in temples made with hands” (verse 24). He also states in this speech that God “made” us (verse 26), which is different from saying that God procreated us as his literal offspring.
The doctrine that we preexisted as spirits in heaven and that God sent us here to further our spiritual development is not taught in the Bible.
*If a heavenly mother exists, why do the Scriptures never mention her?
*Does the Bible teach that we are the literal offspring of heavenly parents?
*How could spirits in heaven prepare themselves for their service on earth if during their earthly lives they remember nothing about their life in heaven?
Thank you so much Cristee for your VERY thoughtful comments. I appreciated hearing your perspective. You asked me a few questions at the end...
DeleteThank you so much Cristee for taking the time to leave some VERY thoughtful comments. I appreciated hearing your perspective. You asked me a few questions at the end.
I will answer these to the best of my ability in three parts...
First question: If a heavenly mother exists, why do the Scriptures never mention her?
You are right. The scriptures do not mention our Heavenly Mother, and she is someone we do not speak of often. I believe that the lack of her being mentioned is out of respect and honor for her. Daily, I hear people using the Lord's name in vain. Knowing the kind of deep love my husband has for me, I'm positive our Heavenly Father's love for Her has to be deeper than I can even imagine. I believe He did not want Her to be the focus of the hate and criticism that the world would bring. Honestly, I don't even pretend to know the ways of God. I'm sure His purposes are even greater than what I just stated. I have a dear friend who experienced great abuse from her Earthly father. Through therapy and great prayer, she had a beautiful realization that she was not abandoned without a loving father. Through all those traumatic years, she discovered that her Heavenly Father was her father. Keep in mind Cristee, I believe in modern day revelation... a modern day prophet whose jobs as a seer and a revelator is to reveal truth. I understand that you do not believe our prophet is a prophet of God. That’s ok… but that is why we believe we have a Heavenly Mother as well. One of my favorite hymns is the following:
1. O my Father, thou that dwellest
In the high and glorious place,
When shall I regain thy presence
And again behold thy face?
In thy holy habitation,
Did my spirit once reside?
In my first primeval childhood
Was I nurtured near thy side?
2. For a wise and glorious purpose
Thou hast placed me here on earth
And withheld the recollection
Of my former friends and birth;
Yet ofttimes a secret something
Whispered, "You're a stranger here,"
And I felt that I had wandered
From a more exalted sphere.
3. I had learned to call thee Father,
Thru thy Spirit from on high,
But, until the key of knowledge
Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.
4. When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?
Then, at length, when I've completed
All you sent me forth to do,
With your mutual approbation
Let me come and dwell with you.
Next question: Does the Bible teach that we are literal offspring of Heavenly parents?
DeleteActs 17:28-29 “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.”
Again, keep in mind, we believe in a modern day prophet who receives inspiration and deeper clarification on these principles.
I know you said it would be a mistake to take this scripture literally, but I disagree. I think that we can!! God is real. I’ve never heard the term used in my church that Heavenly Father “procreated” us… we teach that He created/made us. Honestly, I don’t know how it happened… “procreated”-“made”-(I don’t know exactly how Mary got pregnant. All I understand is that she was pregnant with Jesus, our Savior, who is God, and that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit… It was a miracle.)
There are millions and trillions of things I don’t know yet and look forward to finding out when I return to my Heavenly home. I do know that God gives us the amount of knowledge that is necessary for us to return to Him. It is not necessary for me to know how I became a literal offspring of my Heavenly Father, but it is necessary for me to know that I am a literal daughter of my Heavenly King. I believe we are all children of God and therefore have the potential to live with our Heavenly Father again. We have a choice in this life if we want to accept that heritage or not. Sadly, many do not. Believing that I am a daughter of My Heavenly King makes me walk a little taller.
Third question: How could spirits in heaven prepare themselves for their service on earth if during their earthly lives they remember nothing about their life in heaven?
DeleteThat’s a great question Cristee!! I often wish I could remember more; but yet, that is the journey of Faith. Why don’t we all receive visions of Heaven? Many times I think it would certainly help me make better choices! However, making choices based on knowledge does not require faith. Jesus wants us to place faith in Him before all things are called to our remembrance. I enjoy writing in my blog in the quiet hours of the night because I feel teachings and truths being called to my remembrance. It is my sacred time each day to take the time to listen to God. Sleep calls to me, but the feelings that enter my heart as I pray and write strengthen me like no sleep can. I would also say that I do remember some about my life in heaven. Every time I hear truth, I believe it is knowledge of the teachings in Heaven being called to my remembrance. There have been a couple of friends with whom I have had an unusual connection from the moment I met them. I attribute that spiritual connection to a possible friendship we may have had while living with our Heavenly Father before we came to Earth. And lastly, my preparation in Heaven- talents, knowledge, etc. is called to remembrance every time I make a choice to serve others. I wasn’t a good singer until I sang to the sick in the hospitals in Bolivia. I believe as we serve, those Heavenly lessons return so that we may be of greater service to God.
Please accept my responses as my sacred beliefs and continue to respect the sacred nature of which I have openly shared my heart. It is, however, always ok to disagree with me. ☺
One more thing, I am not an expert on my religion, so if there are any mistakes in my explanations please remember that I am just answering in the best way I know how. :-) Thank you again Cristee.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteShayla... thank you for answering your comments with such knowledge, faith, and heart. Thank you so much for responding to Eli's comment under "Feeling Fat and Pretty." Everything you said was exactly how I would have wanted to explain it. Thank you!
DeleteI have to tell you something special. After reading so many comments about Jayden's Birthday post, I felt a bit sad that there was no reference to my little baby's birthday- who is my miracle! Last night I almost commented myself saying, "but what about my baby?" I chose not to post that, but in my heart I honestly said a prayer saying, "Someone who loves our family will notice the miracle of my child too..." I read your entire comment and got chills from head to toe when you commented on my precious baby. Thank you for following the Spirit. Thank you for loving someone you've never met.
Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions I had and for sharing your beliefs and your heart and receiving my questions so openly. I understood your answers to my questions and read your words carefully and I appreciate the time you took to answer them.
ReplyDeleteJust a correction on my part. I DO take the words of God to be literal (example: I believe as the Bible says the earth was created in a six days. Some disagree, but what is six days to God? His time is different from ours and Moses who wrote the book of Genesis may have put the words this way for our human finite way of understanding. I like the way my six year old explains it, “God can do anything as quick as a wink.”
What I meant was that we should not take the words of the poet literally. This quotation, “For we are also His offspring” Paul uses from Greek poets are attributed to Epimenides the Cretan [600 BC] (who Paul quotes again in Titus 1:12) and Aratus [310 BC]. Paul did not quote these men because they were prophets or because all their teaching was of God. He quoted them because these specific words because by using them he could build a bridge to his pagan audience. The audience Paul was speaking to were Stoic philosophers and believers. They had no knowledge of the Jewish belief (Adam, Eve, Noah, or old testament prophets or even Jesus for that matter). So Paul did here (Acts 17:29) what he did many times when speaking to unbelievers who had no knowledge of God, took what the people’s current belief was, in this case the Stoic philosophers and believers in Athens, and related to God’s truth. He starts this way in Acts 17:23 by talking about the alter they had TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.
That was kind of in depth explanation, but I hope it clarifies my words.
Thank you Cristee for the in-depth explanation. I learned a lot! This is my opinion... I believe that Paul would not and did not share all the words of these poets because, like you said, they were not prophets... I believe the apostle Paul would have carefully chosen the words to share that supported his belief of who God is. He would not have compromised on truth in order to bridge an audience. There will always be many perspectives on most scriptures that is why I have to follow what I feel in my heart after many hours of prayer.
DeleteYes, I agree! Paul never compromised on truth and chose words carefully when speaking to his audience.
DeleteTo dispel any misconceptions that Shayla may have about me I would like to say that I was not trying to convince Rachel of anything. I had questions because the idea of pre-existence is foreign to me and not part of my belief system. I appreciate that Rachel took my questions as sincere and that she took the time to answer them.
ReplyDeleteI think it was also misunderstood that my belief in Christ is based ONLY on knowledge. My belief is based on FAITH and I use the KNOWLEDGE I have of the Bible to back up my FAITH. I used NO worldly knowledge, but I used what I know of the Bible to explain my reasons for not believing in pre-existence. Hebrews 11:1 “Now FAITH is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” is my favorite verse of the Bible. The whole chapter is about great people of the Bible who had faith and how God credited it to them as righteousness.
Chapter 13 of Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians contains a description of true Christian love—it is to be patient and kind. I appreciate that Rachel was patient and kind in her answers to me and that she realized I was not condemning her belief or trying to convince her of mine.
My FAITH is based on the KNOWLEDGE I receive from the Bible that Christ is Lord of my life. I have knowledge AND faith. I think that God wants us to have both as His word says so.
Here are just a few on what God says about KNOWLEDGE.
Proverbs 15:14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.
Proverbs 24:5 A wise man [is] strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.
Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit.
Colossians 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
And verses on FAITH:
Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you. "
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not seen.
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
NON CHRISTIAN: who pursues worldly, human knowledge (that is, knowledge that doesn’t come from the Bible), The Bible says it’s worthless because it isn’t tempered by love (1 Corinthians 13:2). The knowledge man possesses tends to make one proud. “Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up” (1 Corinthians 8:1). Therefore, the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, without seeking God, is foolishness. “Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom . . . but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief” (Ecclesiastes 1:17-18). Worldly knowledge is a false knowledge which is opposed to the truth, and Paul urges us to “Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith” (1 Timothy 6:20-21). Human knowledge is opposed to God’s knowledge and therefore is no knowledge at all; rather, it is foolishness.
ReplyDeleteCHRISTIAN KNOWLEDGE: Jesus used the word know to refer to His saving relationship with those who follow Him: “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me” (John 10:14). He also told His disciples, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:32). By contrast, Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews, “You do not know [my Father]” (verse 55). Therefore, to know Christ is to have faith in Him, to follow Him, to have a relationship with Him, to love and by loved by Him. (See also John 14:7; 1 Corinthians 8:3; Galatians 4:9; and 2 Timothy 2:19.) Increasing in the knowledge of God is part of Christian maturity and is something all Christians are to experience as we “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18).
I haven’t got much worldly knowledge and many have considered me foolish in my faith (“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:18). But if I boast in any knowledge it is the knowledge of my Lord (“But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Galatians 6:14).
I was using the knowledge I have of the Bible AND of my faith in Christ as the basis for my belief that there is not a pre-existence and was backing that up with God’s word not my feelings or knowing it’s true just because I want it to be true.
I thank Rachel for her careful consideration and trust in me by sharing her beliefs and I don’t think either of us were denouncing each other or each other’s religions. We were sharing what each of our personal beliefs are. It is often hard to share matters of that heart and faith, just as the Bible verse I referred to states and appreciate that she was gracious enough to share that part of herself.
Rachel, yes your baby is beautiful and wonderful! The first taste of birthday cake is the sweetest thing to watch as a parent. That's a sugar high for sure!
ReplyDeleteMy two children are both adopted and are an answer to prayer after 7 years of waiting on God's promise to me (on top of the many years of wanting children since childhood). From what you shared in your post, Jayden has been placed in your home for a reason and I can see he is greatly loved. On my son's birth announcement I put the verse Ephesians 3:20-21 "Now to Him who is able to do immeasurable more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ jesus throughout all generations for ever and ever! Amen." God is so amazing in the way He answers prayer. For my daughter's announcement I put Psalm 145:13 "The Lord is faithful to all His promises..." When you write about Jayden I can identify with you in the adoption. I love how God calls those who come to Him his adopted children. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." Romans 8:14-16. "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." Galatians 4:4-6.
The pictures were a joy to see!
Wow!! I'm so happy to know we share a common love for adoption. Thank you for acknowledging my birthday boy :-) That really was very sweet of you. The scriptures you chose for your babies' birth announcements are perfect. How wonderful for them to be raised knowing Christ. That is the greatest gift we can give our children. I LOVE the many scriptures on adoption and what those mean to me...:) Thank you for your comment.
DeleteGorgeous little boy! What a treasure! The last picture makes me think of how he looked when he realized you were his mother. Too cute!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much!! :-) Jayden definitely is a Mamma's Boy. Thanks for letting me brag for a moment. :-)
Delete